EM: Welcome back to the Cobblestone Café, everyone. I'm here this week with, not one, but two special guests: fantasy author Sandy Lender and her leading man, Nigel Taiman. Sandy, Nigel, thanks for joining me today!

Sandy Lender: Good morning. It's good to be here.

Nigel Taiman: Good morning. It's good to see you again, Ms. Sky. Thank you for hosting Sandy today.

EM: Nigel, please, there's no need to be formal. It's just EM, like the letter "M."

Nigel Taiman: Pretty. So does anyone in your life call you Emmie?

Sandy Lender: You can pretend he's not really here. He has this propensity for misusing everyone's name. It sends the women in the novel into conniptions half the time.

EM: That's all right. He can call me Emmie, if he wants to.

So, Sandy, there's a tremendous background to Choices Meant for Gods, a rich tapestry of gods and sorcery and at least two different kinds of magic, a tremendously complex history, not to mention different cities with different cultures that I presume are expanded later in the trilogy... How long did it take to work out all these details?

Sandy Lender: All your visitors will think I'm insane after this answer, but I guess an epic fantasy author has to be a little on the "touched" side or she wouldn't be in the business. I first envisioned my main character, the heroine of Choices Meant for Gods, Amanda Chariss, back in 1982 or 1983, as she stood on her benefactor's balcony with her arms holding back the curtains, as if she was embracing the morning before her like some sort of goddess. I was instantly taken with her...fell in love right then and there. What I didn't realize at the time was that I viewed her through the eyes of the bad guy; my villain, Lord Jamieson Drake, was the one showing me this stunning young lady. I've been hearing whispers of her story and her world's history ever since.

So it took roughly from 1983 to 2000 to sketch out the history and the religion and the map and the stars and the genealogy and the legends and everything necessary to create the story behind Choices Meant for Gods. I sat down at the computer in 2000 and wrote the first book in about three years.

As one of my muses and guides in the writing of the story, Chariss herself was instrumental in getting all the facts straight. Lately, Nigel here has been a big help in making sure I have the story right, as well.

EM: Wow, that's some serious dedication! But the Choices trilogy has obviously been an ambitious project from the start. Nigel, you probably know Sandy better than anyone. Tell us, how do you think she managed to stick with it through all those long years? What kept her going?

Nigel Taiman: I might be sitting too close to her to answer that honestly. I guess I could say she's quite driven to get the story of my bride told. She has deep sympathy for what Mandy goes through. Chariss. Pardon me. Everyone else calls her Chariss. Because she has such compassion for Chariss and the other characters, Sandy wants to get the story right. That means spending time on all the details. I think that's why the two of us are spending so much time in editing with Book II right now. The details are driving her nuts.

EM: Speaking of details... in the world of Choices Meant for Gods, there are at least three different kinds of magical ability that we've seen so far. There are wizards, like Hrazon, who use a kind of sorcery; there are "gifted" people like Chariss—and like you, too, Nigel, right?—who use the geasa; and there are even gods who walk the earth among mortals.

Can you give us just a bit of background about these three kinds of magic? What are their strengths and weaknesses, and how do they differ from one another?

Sandy Lender: Well, I need to make sure that we keep the two basic kinds of "magic" as people will call them very clear. I'm actually pretty careful not to refer to the geasa as magic. In fact, in the novel, bigots and people who fear the Geasa'n refer to those who possess the geasa as "magicked" and use the term in a derogatory fashion. It's often shortened to "'jicked" as a slang use, and it actually gets under my skin now as badly as some of our disgusting slang terms that bigots in our society use.

Hrazon, a wizard, does not use sorcery. He possesses the geasa. Chariss, a Geasa'n, does not use sorcery. She possesses the geasa. Nigel here, a Geasa'n, also possesses the geasa, but he's got a little surprise that we figure out in the novel and that will prove invaluable in Book II.

Now, Lord Drake, a sorcerer, uses sorcery. There's a big, bad, evil difference between the geasa and the power that is derived from sorcery in my novel. You see, I'm a southern baptist and I take to heart the parts of the Bible where it teaches that sorcery is a bad thing derived from a bad source. So I don't want to confuse younger readers with the idea that my "good guys" would use sorcery or magic, even if it was for a good purpose. This left me with a dilemma. How do I portray Chariss's gift without confusing the living daylights out of everybody? So I made something up. Yes, that's walking a fine line, but this is fantasy. What can ya do?

Oh, and then I had all these gods and goddesses (oh, that would kinda conflict with my southern baptist upbringing, by the way, but, again, epic fantasy...) that I couldn't have rushing about tossing spells derived from sorcery. So my best bet was to create a power derived from the positive forces in nature. Voila. The geasa was born. And I made Chariss just ooze with it because she rocks.

Nigel Taiman: She does.

Sandy Lender: There are different levels of power within the geasa. Everybody's got it doled out to them in differing amounts. That's why Chariss's power is unknown at first. Her wizard guardian, Hrazon, is forever being surprised by the things she can do, as is Master Rothahn, the god, when He shows up on the scene, because no one knows how much power a Geasa'n has until he or she starts practicing with it. Certain beings have known limitations, though, as the reader learns. For instance, wizards don't have good healing powers in the Choices Meant for Gods mythos.

EM: Nigel, I noticed you just had to chime in there about Chariss. It seems to me you have two important women in your life: Chariss, and this lovely lady here with you today. Tell us, do Chariss and Sandy remind you of each other at all?

Nigel Taiman: By the gods, Woman! There is no way I can answer that without getting punched soundly.

Sandy Lender: I could promise not to punch you.

Nigel Taiman: Do you see how amused she is by this, Emmie? You don't know the danger you've put me in. I've got a bride back home in my society who won't like any answer I give and a fantasy author right here who won't like any answer I give.

I think the best way to explain this is to give you Sandy's opinion, not mine. Sandy doesn't think Chariss bears any resemblance to her or vice versa, and I'm not just talking about the amethyst on her cheek. Chariss is Chariss. In fact, Sandy says that if there are any characteristics of a person from this society in Chariss, it's probably traces of her younger sister and traces of the orphan Jane Eyre from the Charlotte Bronte novel. I've not met Sandy's sister, so I can't comment on that comparison, and from the passages I've read of Jane Eyre, I'd have to say Chariss does possess Jane's indomitable spirit. Chariss possesses a lot of spirit. In fact, she's got this incredible ability to—

Sandy Lender: EM, you might want to interrupt him right about now. That look means we're going to get a diatribe on Chariss's merits.

EM: Right. So, Sandy, before I let you go, I hear you're going to Dragoncon. That's in Atlanta, from August 31st to September 3rd. Do you know yet what appearances you'll be making?

Sandy Lender: I'm not presenting at DragonCon, but I will have a presence at my dealer table that I share with fellow ArcheBooks author M.B. Weston. Then I'm also assisting the good folks at FantasyBookSpot.com with their "newscasting" of the show. That fifteen years of journalism experience I've got under my belt lets me help lots of people.

EM: So have you done one of these before? What's it like to appear at a convention as a new author?

Sandy Lender: The conventions I've attended in the past have all seen me in an organizational role so this and Context 20, where I'll be speaking about building religions and researching things that don't exist and e-publishing... I imagine it's going to be a nonstop whirlwind of activity. At both shows.

EM: Wow, sounds exciting!

Sandy Lender: It does. I'm looking forward to carrying a sword around.

EM: Well, Larry's telling me we're just about out of time here, but I want to thank you both again for being on the show. Sandy, Nigel, it's been a real pleasure.

Sandy Lender: It has been fun! Thank you for inviting me. And this one here has been well-behaved.

Nigel Taiman: Nice. Emmie, it's been wonderful speaking with you again. Thank you for your hospitality.

And three... two... one... we're out. That's a wrap, everybody.

EM: So Nigel, are you going to Dragoncon, too?

Nigel Taiman: I'll be lurking. It's my job to keep the author safe, you know. She may carry that paltry little sword she's got but I'm the one who knows how to wield it. And you're going, right? You'll be accompanying us to the Tolkien party, I assume?

EM: Hey, really? You mean it?

Sandy Lender: Of course we have to hang out together. You've got to help me get away from my dealer table once in a while and make sure I get to meet all the celebrities I'm dying over. I'll be the gal with the amethyst on her cheekbone, high up near the corner of her right eye...

EM: That's terrific! I'll see you there!

Sandy Lender's Choices Meant for Gods was featured in the August issue of Wet Ink. Read the full review here, or visit the book site on Amazon.

EM: Welcome back to the Cobblestone Café, where life slows down every Monday morning, and authors and characters stop in for a chat. Apparently our little show has caused quite a stir in Locksley after last week's interview with Robin Hood. So I'm here this morning at knife point— I mean, it's my pleasure this week to have the Sheriff of Nottingham here with us in the EM Sky studios. Welcome, Sheriff.

Sheriff: Thank you, EM. It's quite gracious of you to have me. I—

[voice interrupted by screeching feedback]

Sheriff: If this is your idea of a joke... Are we still on the air?

EM: Yes, we are, Sheriff. Sorry. We're all just a bit nervous around here, what with the armed henchman scattered about.

Sheriff: They are not henchman. These are my personal guard. One can't be too careful these days, with murderers like Hood on the loose.

EM: Not to argue with you, Sheriff, but he didn't threaten anyone while he was here.

Sheriff: Well he wouldn't, would he? Not on the air. No, no. He's far too underhanded for that. He'd rather break into my personal bedchamber in the middle of the night, put a knife to my throat, and threaten my life without any witnesses. That's how an assassin operates, you know. No proof against him, nothing corroborated.

EM: But if he's an assassin, why didn't he kill you?

Sheriff: What's that?

EM: When he was in your bedchamber, with the knife at your throat. If he's really the murderer you claim he is, why didn't he kill you?

Sheriff: Er... well... that was just a figure of speech, you see. My guards would never let a criminal like Hood anywhere near the castle. Absolutely not.

EM: But Robin's been to the castle plenty of times.

Sheriff: No, he hasn't.

EM: There are eyewitnesses.

Sheriff: No, there aren't.

EM: We have three eyewitnesses waiting on the call lines already!

Sheriff: Really? That's fascinating. I want their names. Just to talk with them, you understand. So we can conduct a thorough investigation.

EM: Um... hmmm... it seems they've all hung up.

Sheriff: Of course they have. You see? Just a few harmless peasants wanting a little attention. There aren't any real eyewitnesses because Robin Hood couldn't get anywhere near me. I'm far too clever for him.

EM: What the heck?

Sheriff: Robin! Where is he? Guards! Find him! Robin, come out and face me, you coward!

EM: Sheriff? Why are you hiding under the table?

Sheriff: [in a hissing whisper] I'm not hiding! Don't say I'm hiding on the air!

EM: Oh, right. Sorry. But really, what are you doing down there?

Sheriff: I'm not down anywhere. I'm sitting right here at the table with you.

EM: No, you aren't.

Sheriff: Yes, I am.

EM: No, you aren't.

Sheriff: Yes, I am!

EM: No, you—

Sheriff: Cut!

EM: Cut? You can't say 'cut.' This isn't a movie set.

Sheriff: When I say 'cut,' I mean 'cut'! Guards!

EM: Uh oh. OK, that's about it for this week's show, ladies and gentlemen. Let's have a nice, loud round of applause so the Sheriff can hear it down there under the—

Sheriff: Cut!

And-three-two-one-we're-out-and-I'm-out-of-here-bye-EM...

EM: Larry? Hey, Larry? Is anybody in the booth? Oh, that's just great. Lousy, ungrateful sound engineers... I tell you. You offer someone a job, and then at the first sign of mortal danger, wham! Bye-bye, boss.

Sheriff: Hey, I know how you feel. Miserable, isn't it? I lose more guards that way...

EM: All right, well, I guess I'm heading out, too. Sheriff? Can I get you anything down there before I go?

Sheriff: No, thanks. I'm fine.

EM: You sure?

Sheriff: Yep, I'm good.

EM: OK, well, keep your head down...

Sheriff: Yeah. Very funny.

EM: Welcome back to the Cobblestone Café, where life slows down every Monday morning, and authors and characters stop in for a chat. Joining us today is none other than the protector of Locksley, champion of King Richard, the one and only Robin Hood. Welcome, Mr. Hood!

Robin: No, no. It's just Robin. Please. No need for formalities. I'm not even a nobleman at the moment. At least, not technically...

EM: Oh that's right! The sheriff, and all that. Nasty business. So what's that like, going from the noble life to hiding out in the forest?

Robin: Well, it's not great, now is it? Not that I'm complaining, mind you. The peasants have it far worse than I. Still, a man goes off to war, to fight for his king, he certainly doesn't expect to come home to corruption in his own backyard.

I mean think about it. It's like, "There you go, there's a good lad, off to war with you," and then the second you come home it's the same thing all over again. "Back home again are you? Right, just in time! Go defend the king against his own brother and his appointed minions, all right? We'd help you out, but we're a little busy in the Holy Land. Just do your best. Try not to get killed."

Honestly. Where's the thanks? Where's the glory for the returning hero? Where's the girl for heaven's sake?

EM: Ah yes, Marion. So, things aren't going well?

Robin: Oh, I don't know. They might have been, you know, if I could have come home to my own house. Sure, she was angry with me for leaving, and between you and me I don't blame her. But I could have made it up to her.

Now I'm, what, living in a forest? With a loyal rabble of "merry men," who aren't all that merry, truth be told. What's she supposed to do? Leave her father's house to come sleep in a cave? Spend one rainy English day after another huddled under a blanket near a dying campfire?

Oh, right. That's romantic, I'll tell you what. That's a young woman's dream, it is. Ha! I don't think so.

EM: I bet she'd do it if you asked her.

Robin: Well, sure, you're probably right. I bet she would at that. But I couldn't let her do it. It's not just the rain or the cold; it's the whole outlaw business that's the real problem. If she got caught... Well, I can't even think of it.

No. Absolutely not. It's out of the question.

EM: Well, that's too bad—

Robin: But really, is it too much to ask for her to wait just a bit longer? I mean, I'm home now, right? More or less, anyway. She knows where I am. Despite the danger, I stop by to see her all the time, check in with her, keep her in the loop, you know. And what does she do? She goes out and gets herself engaged to someone else!

I swear, I turn my back for five minutes...

EM: So, Robin, what—

Robin: Engaged! Without even a "by your leave," as if I were nobody! As if what we had meant nothing. Nothing! And as if that weren't bad enough, the bloke's a bloody assassin! My mortal enemy! It's like she's trying to upset me, isn't it!

Honestly, EM. What do you think? Do you think she's done it on purpose? Like maybe it's some kind of punishment for leaving and all that?

EM: Well I—

Robin: No, you're right. You're right! She wouldn't do that. She's angry, but she's not the vengeful sort. Never has been.

It's just her father, you know. Trying to protect him, keep him in the new sheriff's good graces. Or at least out of his bad graces, which is about the best you can hope for there. Not a nice man, the sheriff, to say the least.

EM: Robin, I—

Robin: Hey, thanks, EM. Really. You're a great gal yourself, eh? You should think about settling down maybe. Having a few kids. Do you like kids?

EM: I—

Robin: Right. Well, I'd best be off. Things to do, people to save, you know. But I'll come back some time. Drop in and say hello. Maybe have a cup of tea in between crises. That's all it is these days, one bloody crisis after another. But things have to slow down eventually.

Tell you what, maybe I'll bring Marion next time. Let the two of you meet. Maybe you can talk some sense into her, what do you say? Splendid! Well, until then.

EM: OK... well... thanks for stopping by, Robin. I hope things start looking up for you... Wow, there he goes. Huh. The guy sure can run, can't he? I'll give him that...

And three... two... one... We're clear, EM. That's a wrap.

EM: Hey, Larry? Let's cut back on the action hero interviews from now on, OK?

Larry: Sure thing, EM.

EM: I mean, honestly. This is a talk show, right? Interviews? A little back and forth maybe? Is that so much to ask?

Larry: Yeah, we'll work on it.

This interview with Robin Hood has been brought to you by reader request. If you have a request for an author or character interview, write to me here at the Cobblestone Café and I'll see what I can do.

EM: I'm sitting here this week at The Cobblestone Café with one of my very favorite fantasy characters, the indomitable Jig the Goblin. Welcome, Jig! Glad to have you on the show!

JIG: Well, it was either do the interview or get stuck trying to cure another outbreak of toe fungus back at the lair. Um... can you lock that door behind you? I'm still a little twitchy after that whole mess in the ogres' tunnels.

EM: Oh. Sure thing. Larry? The door?

Larry: Got it.

EM: Yeah? It's locked? OK, thanks. So, Jig, you've been the star now of two wildly successful Jim Hines Goblin Adventure books, with a third on the way. How are you doing with all the publicity? Has the fame changed your life much?

JIG: I have a lot more nightmares these days. Partly about the toe fungus, but also about dragons and ogres and all of the times Kralk tried to kill me because she thought I wanted to take her place as chief. She even hired a hobgoblin to set up an axe trap in the temple, but I guess the trap went off too soon. I miss the days when I could hide in the far tunnels with Smudge and people would just leave us alone. It's not all bad, though. I have my spectacles, and a new pair of boots!

EM: Oh, I love the boots. Where can I find a pair of those?

JIG: That's one of the only good things about adventures. When everything's over, there are plenty of dead bodies to steal from. Assuming you're not one of them, I mean. Also, there's plenty to eat. Warriors are extra meaty, you know.

EM: Um, right. Of course... Well, at least I have my own pair of spectacles. Hey, look at that. They're about the same shape as yours. Ha! We could be twins!

JIG: Yours look so light. How do you keep them from getting broken when the bigger humans punch you in the head for getting in their way?

EM: Ah. Um... that's an excellent point, of course... But you see, where I come from, people don't have to worry about that very much. All the adult humans give up some of their money every year for the common good. That's called a "tax base." Then we use some of that money to pay certain people to go around making sure that nobody punches anybody in the head.

JIG: Oh, that's what taxes are for. I saw something about those in the third book. If I had known you could pay humans not to punch you in the head, that whole mess with Straum and Barius would have been a little less miserable. Not that I had anything to pay them with, back then. Coins aren't as important to goblins as things like food and weapons and good boots. And humans don't seem to appreciate goblin cooking.

EM: Well, it works better in a whole village full of humans. Two or three humans faced with one goblin aren't likely to feel bound by the same rules, unfortunately...

But you mentioned the third book. How did that go for you? Did you have fun working on the project?

JIG: Fun? Fun? He called the third book Goblin War. Do you know what happens to goblins when they go to war?

I'm not allowed to say much about it. Jim said he'd give me a break from these adventures, but if I spilled the beans about Tymalous Shadowstar's history or Billa the Bloody's monstrous army, he'd put me through another trilogy. I don't know what beans have to do with anything, but if it means I get a little peace and quiet, I'll protect his precious beans.

I'll tell you this much, though. Whoever decided goblins should ride giant wolves into battle had dung for brains.

EM: OK, so you're obviously looking forward to taking a break for a while. What do you intend to do with your time off? Do you have any big plans?

JIG: Um ... I'm told I can't answer that question, on account of it might give away the ending of the book. Spoilers, whatever those are. Something about not letting people know what happens, and whether or not I— Hey, wait. What do you mean whether or not I survive? How can I not survive? I'm right here, and— Final revisions? What does that mean?

All right, where did I put my sword?

EM: I'm sorry... your sword? Listen, Jig, you can't have a sword in here.

JIG: It wouldn't help anyway. I guess he's already signed the contracts, so even if I killed him, there's no getting out of the third book. Going back to your question though, I think I'm going to spend my free time plotting a way to get back at Hines for everything he's done to me over the past few years. Beware the little guys, for they are sneakiest in their revenge.

EM: OK, well, it looks like we're out of time here, Jig. But I'd like to thank you for being on the show today. It's been a pleasure. And folks, stay tuned for further updates on Goblin War by Jim C. Hines, arriving on the shelves early in 2008.

And, three... two... one... we're clear, EM. That's a wrap.

EM: Hey, Jig. Thanks again for being on the show. I had a lot of fun today. Really! Oh, and Larry? Would you get Hines on the phone for me, please? Larry?

Larry: Will do, EM.

JIG: Tell him I'm going to write my own books! Tell him we'll see how he likes going up against dragons and ogres and humans, and eating bread and other nasty stuff. Tell him I'm going to make sure a fire-spider burns off his hair. Wait, does he have any hair left these days? Well, whatever's left, it's going to burn! And also, I'm going to make sure my cover artist gets his nose too big.

EM: Sure thing, Jig. Whatever you say. Larry? Today, please? And while you're at it, you might want to all-cay ecurity-say, if you catch my drift.

Larry: Yeah, got it.

JIG: Well, I guess I should go back and see how Braf's doing with that toe fungus outbreak. I hope he hasn't tried burning people's feet again. It does cure the fungus, but last time, he stunk up the whole lair.

Jim C. Hines' Goblin Quest and Goblin Hero are both available on Amazon and at other fine booksellers.

EM: Welcome back to The Cobblestone Café! Joining me today is Astra Q Phelps, star of Sam Cheever's new release, 'Tween Heaven and Hell. Welcome, Astra!

Astra: How’s it goin’ EM. Glad to be here.

EM: So, Astra, how has the premier circuit been treating you? 'Tween Heaven and Hell just came out four days ago... Have you been enjoying the publicity?

Astra: Sure, it’s great to be out there among my fans. People really seem to be taking to Astra Q. Phelps, Demon hunter extraordinaire. I think they like the idea of a woman who can hold her own with the bad guy and still be feminine enough to attract the hottie leading man.

EM: Hey, who wouldn't like that? Speaking of the leading man, how has that been going for you? Do you enjoy working with Dialle? Is he a lot of fun on the set, or would you say he's more the serious type?

Astra: Actually, he’s a total cut up. The other day he sent a picture of Wormhead, the demon from ‘Tween Heaven and Hell to an online dating service. They had to completely shut down the website within twenty minutes. They may never recover.

EM: And what about Emo? Are you two as close in real life as you are in the book?

Astra: He’s really cute isn’t he? We’ve been friends for a long time. His mother and my father were Angels together, before they fell. But, between you and me, I’m having trouble getting used to his new look. I’ve always thought of him as kind of a brother. Now he makes my palms sweat when I look at him. It’s not a comfortable feeling for me, you know?

EM: I'm sure it's quite the transition. But what do you think? Is there a chance for some real chemistry there?

Astra: I'm not going to rule it out completely. We're both young and recently attractive. Who knows what might happen.

EM: How about Sam Cheever? Has she been fun to work with? And do you like what she's done with your character?

Astra: Sam and I have what you might call a challenging relationship. Every once in a while she yanks my chain a little. Like, for example, she recently told me that she was writing me into a scene with a lot of rats. I hate rats. Give me a good old slavering gargoyle to deal with any day, I can handle those, but rats....[shudder].

Anyway, turns out she didn't really mean it, she was just teasing me. That kind of honked me off you know? But mostly we get along. We're both enjoying my character a lot and she lets me have fun with it. She gives me latitude as we say in the business.

EM: So tell us a bit more about you. I mean honestly... demon hunting? How does someone get into demon hunting as a profession? Is this something you always wanted to do? When you were a child, did you sit around the house thinking, "Boy, I can't wait until I'm old enough to hunt demons!"?

Astra: Well yes, of course! I mean, I have a fallen Angel for a father, a Royal Devil for a mother, a magick phobic sister who thinks she has the right to boss me around all the time, and an extremely cranky guardian Angel named Myra. That’s a lot of baggage to haul around, you know?

On top of that, I’m very short. You’ve heard of little woman syndrome haven’t you? We’re talkin’ a lot of anger type issues here. Something had to be done or I would have started turning the other little kiddies on the playground into mutants.

And let’s face it, demons are very expendable. It’s still PC to vaporize a demon. You get into lots of trouble blasting human type critters. And it’s worked out fine for me. I’ve definitely found my Chi. In fact I’m flippin’ wallowing in Chi.

EM: So how do you reconcile your profession with your personal relationship? Isn't your current romantic involvement with Dialle essentially sleeping with the enemy?

Astra: Technically that’s true but I have an out. All evidence points to Dialle being the answer to a 2000 year old prophesy which states that a devil of Royal birth will unite the light and dark worlds to save humanity. If that’s true then we’re kind of on the same side. Anyway, I’m going with that. After all, have you seen him? I mean he’s totally crashin’.

EM: If you had your way, what kinds of developments would you see up ahead for Astra Q Phelps? Besides leaving out the rats, what else do you hope Sam has in store for you?

Astra: Well…I’m hoping that I can get my Father back on the Big Guy’s payroll. He’s never been the same since he met my mother and fell.

And of course I want my career to keep on keepin’ on. I mean, dark worlders are a volatile group. Talk about anger issues…yeesh! Who knows when they’ll just take each other out and leave me without a job. In fact that’s exactly what’s about to happen in ‘Tween a Devil and His Hard Place, which Sam and I are working on right now. We have our hands full dealing with that mess let me tell you.

Also, Sam’s promised me we’ll get the love life thing worked out, which is good, ‘cause there have been some new developments in the sequel that have me seriously confused.

EM: Well, you heard it here, folks. Sam Cheever's 'Tween Heaven and Hell is now available from Cerridwen Press, with more trouble and romance on the way. So stay tuned!

And three... two... one... that's it, we're out. Thanks, you two. Good job.

EM: Hey, thanks for stopping by, Astra. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Drop by any time! But... um... just don't bring any pet gargoyles or anything, OK? I really don't like those things. They give me the creeps.

Astra: Thanks for inviting me EM, I’ve enjoyed it. Don’t worry about the gargoyles, I’ve got a handle on those.

Anyway, you might have bigger things to worry about. You remember Torre, the bartender from Demonica? Well…he spotted you at the premier the other night and apparently he thinks you’re a hottie. You might want to make sure you keep your holy water close for a while just in case…I’m just sayin’…

While most of the Mind Unbound site is intentionally rated G, the following post is rated PG, due to a single instance of "strong language." Given the context, any censorship of the word would have altered and thereby misrepresented the genuine expression of Mr. Rothfuss' emotions and personal experience.

EM: We're back at the The Cobblestone Café, and joining us again this week is Patrick Rothfuss, author of The Name of the Wind. I'm delighted to see you again!

Patrick: You... You can see me? Do you have a camera in my house? Are you a witch?

EM: Um... no. [adds in stage whisper] I'm just pretending.

Patrick: Oh... good. That's for the best. Trust me.

EM: [muttering while writing] Note to self... no cameras... no witchcraft...

Right. Got it. OK, last week you mentioned that the trilogy has been fourteen years in the making, all told. The Name of the Wind is magnificent—truly magnificent—but during those years there had to be times when the process felt terribly difficult. Were there moments when you doubted the project? When you even doubted the value of what you were creating?

Patrick: For the vast majority of the time, I assumed that it was never going to be published. I'm a practical person, and I never lied to myself about the odds. I think of every 250 people who start a novel, one finishes it. Of every 250 people who finish a novel, one sells it. Since I didn't have any expectations of success, I wasn't disappointed. I was writing because I loved to write, and because I loved the story.

But that isn't to say that I didn't have hopes. And when you have hopes you're opening yourself up to disappointment. (Any Buddhists out there? Sound familiar?)

I remember one night in particular I was sitting up, typing (I was probably 4 years into the project at this point) and I realized with perfect clarity that my book, in fact, was pure shit. That I had, in fact, wasted years of my life. And that, in fact, this book would never, ever sell. Ever. I sat there at the computer at 2:00 in the morning. I knew these things to be perfectly true. It was a desolating experience.

Then I started typing again. What else could I do? I wasn't going to leave things half-finished. I couldn't just walk away....

EM: Oh, I'm so glad you didn't! But I guess that's something just about every author goes through... Looking back on that struggle today, now that The Name of the Wind has been published and is receiving such positive attention, does it feel like it was all worth it? If you had known up front how much time and effort was going to go into the trilogy, would you still have decided to go through it all?

Patrick: Well it's easy now to say yes. We've sold it in 13 countries right now, with number fourteen on the way. I'm nominated for a couple awards. People write me letters telling me how much they like it. Of course I'd still do it.

But even if I hadn't been so lucky, I'd still do it. I've learned so much writing this book. I'm a better person for it.

I might try to do it a little more quickly though. It would have been nice to have got my foot in the door of the publishing world about 5-6 years ago. I feel like I'm getting a bit of a late start.

EM: I'm glad to know you'd do it all over again either way, but I also know what it's like to wish things hadn't taken quite so long. I wish I'd been where I am today about ten years ago...

Getting back to your book, you've done such a tremendous job with your characters. Kvothe is terrific—so real, so engaging—and I love his relationship with Denna, the way they dance around each other. It's marvelous how thoroughly you've developed Denna's situation as a young woman in that society, and how that influences her character and the nature of her relationship with Kvothe.

You've stated in other interviews that you're concerned about the prevalence of sexism in fantasy literature. I can—and do!—personally recommend your books for dealing both openly and intelligently with this issue. What other authors would you recommend in this vein?

Patrick: Terry Pratchett does a great job with all of these elements. He deals with sexism, racism, classism, everythingism. Best of all, he does it without being heavy-handed or preachy. He's just an all-around great writer. If you read fantasy and aren't already into his stuff, I'm surprised.

Robin Hobb does a great job with this stuff too. And Ursula K LeGuin, of course. Oh. How about someone who's a little newer to the scene? Neddi Okorafor. Her first book, Zarah the Windseeker, was awesome. It's a young-adult book where the fantasy world has a strong African theme. You don't find that very often.

Even more impressive is the fact that the main character is a young girl who sets out on an adventure into the wilderness to save her friend. Zarah is gutsy and clever. She survives by her wits and her talents, not by being rescued by someone else. We need more books with strong female characters like that. They're too rare.

Lastly, one of my favorite webcomics, Goblins, regularly talks about this sort of stuff. Even though a lot of the commentary is humorous, you can tell the author is actively thinking about some of the clichés and that are embedded deep into the fantasy genre.

EM: Speaking of clichés, I loved your responses in a couple of different interviews regarding the use of fantasy clichés in The Name of the Wind. On Fantasy Book Spot, for example, you said:

When I first sat down to write it, I thought, 'I'm not going to do anything even remotely cliché.' So I made a long list of the things that I felt had been overdone, and set out to avoid them.

The trouble is [...] some tropes are universal. Boy meets girl. Betrayal and revenge. The search to discover a hidden truth.... A mother's love isn't cliché, it's universal. These things are archetypes. They're the building blocks of myth and legend. They are a big part about what it means to be human.

Is it fair to say that writing The Name of the Wind became an exercise—or better yet, an exploration—in recognizing the difference between stereotypes and universal human archetypes?

Patrick: No. It wouldn't be fair to say that. While I'd love to take the credit for doing something so profound, it's just not true. I set out to tell an interesting story. That's all.

Now don't get me wrong. I wanted the book to have substance as well. I wanted it to have an emotional impact. I wanted to create real characters. I wanted people to lose sleep because they couldn't put the book down.

And, truthfully, I do think about those things. Stereotypes and Archetypes. Truth and beauty. I think about what makes us human and the chicken and the egg thing and all sorts of what-ifs. It's only natural that pieces of those thoughts end up in the book.

But to say that the book is an exploration of those things....? No. No I don't think so.

If anything. I think the book might be a story about stories. It's about how we shape stories and how we are ourselves shaped by our belief in them.

Maybe that's what the book is about. I don't know. I don't really think too much about those terms.

EM: Ah. Well the answer may still be "no," but I didn't mean to ask about the finished book. I really meant to ask about your experience in writing the book—about how deeply you delved into the process of separating the clichés from the archetypes.

You mentioned earlier that you feel you're a better person for writing the book. Is your thinking about stereotypes and archetypes a part of what you gained from the process? In what way would you say you've become a better person?

Patrick: While I did do a lot of thinking about those things, it's not the main benefit.

What I gained from the book is a better understanding of stories, of people, of the craft of writing. Also, because everything I learn is potential fodder for the book, everything is interesting to me. I look at mountains and I think, "Are the mountains in my world like this?" I learn about soil erosion and I think, "This would have a huge effect on pre-industrial farmers." I find how snakes live through the winter and I think, "This can apply to certain fae creatures I'm trying to develop."

Because I have the book, everything is relevant and cool.

EM: We were talking last week about worldbuilding and how much goes into it. You've mentioned in other interviews that there's another side to worldbuilding: "The key to good worldbuilding is leaving out most of what you create."

What advice would you give emerging writers on how to know the difference between what needs to be included and what ought to be left out?

Patrick: I think that question is probably the most crucial one in all writing. Not just fantasy, but all types of writing in any genre. "How much is too much?"

If you write too much, you risk your reader getting bored. If you don't write enough, you risk your reader getting confused. Where is the happy medium?

If I had the easy, foolproof answer to this I could sell it for a million dollars. I'd be the messiah of the writing world.

But I don't. So let me tell you a story instead.

Way back when I started working on my book, one of my professors was good enough to do an independent study class with me. He was a creative writing professor named Larry Watson, the only professional writer I knew at the time.

I remember asking him this same question. I was building a world for my characters to live in. I was building religions and magic systems and histories. It was fun, but I was worried about how much of my world I wanted to include in the story.

So I asked him, "How much of this do I need to include? How can I tell what's necessary?"

He said, "That's probably the most important question in all writing. How much is too much?"

Then he said, "I read a book once where the main character was a glovemaker. It was a great book, and I really enjoyed it. But a lot of people were irritated because the author devoted large portions of the book to the fine points of glovemaking. He described it in a lot of detail."

He leaned back in his chair and said. "Was the glovemaking necessary to the story? I don't know." He shrugged. "But I liked it. I enjoyed the glovemaking."

Nowadays, when I'm working on the book and I start to worry if I'm giving the reader too much, or giving them things they might not be interested in, I think, "Am I glovemaking?" But I also remember what Mr. Watson said. He liked the glovemaking.

There is a difference between something being essential, and it being necessary. If you take your favorite book and strip it down to what is merely essential to tell the story, it would be butchery. The end result would horrify you. Essential is the bones of the story, but the soul lives somewhere else.

EM: Oh, I love that. The soul lives somewhere else...

Well, we've gone way over time here—not that I'm surprised—but Larry's about to wax into conniptions over in the booth so I guess we'd better sign off. That's it for this week, folks. Let's hear a thunderous round of applause for our guest, Mr. Patrick Rothfuss. Patrick, thanks so much.

Aaaaaand... three... two... one... we're out.

EM: Thanks so much for being on the show, Pat. That was terrific!

Patrick: Thank you. See you again when book two comes out?

EM: I'd love it! I'll be here with bells on. Most likely figuratively, but who knows? A lot can change in a fashion-year...

EM: Welcome back to The Cobblestone Café. This week we have a very special guest with us: Mr. Patrick Rothfuss, author of the widely acclaimed The Name of the Wind. Thanks for joining us today!

Patrick: Heya. Thanks for having me.

EM: So, Patrick, The Name of the Wind has been receiving rave reviews across the board, and now I hear it's been nominated for a Quill Award! (I'm sure that's because I happen to love the book, my opinion being so highly influential and all. You can thank me later...)

Patrick: [laughter]

EM: Yeah, so anyway, congratulations on the nomination!

Patrick: Thanks much. It's still a little surreal to me. Since I don't get out much I actually hadn't heard of the Quill Award until I was nominated. Then I went online and saw some of the video clips. It's a pretty swank deal. Red carpet and reporters and everything. I don't know how well I'm going to fit into that sort of scene....

EM: So the fame and fortune haven't started to change your lifestyle yet? No red carpets?

Patrick: Oh lord. Young writers would be so disillusioned if they saw my lifestyle. It's not very Rockstar at all. The thing is, people assume that as soon as your book gets published, you get rich. But it's not really the case. Even if you're really lucky like me and you get a lot of attention, that doesn't mean you're suddenly rolling in cash.

The other day my agent called and said, "Good news! We sold the translation rights in Italy!" I said, "Cool." Then I hung up the phone, went downstairs, and picked all the quarters out of my change jar so I could go buy a gallon of milk.

EM: Don't tell me you're still eating ramen noodles—

Patrick: Damn. Would you believe I've actually eaten ramen for the last three days? Good guess.

I don't mean to paint a grim picture here. I spent many long years as a student, so I'm used to this lifestyle. I like ramen, so it's not like I'm going through any great hardships. Eventually though I hope to move up the food chain a little. Talk to me again in a year. I'll probably still be eating ramen, but maybe I'll be doing it out of a solid gold bowl....

EM: [laughing] Sounds like there's a bit of a time lag between selling a book and making money from it, but of course writing the two thousand printed pages of the trilogy took even longer. I understand the entire process of writing and selling all three books took about nine years?

Patrick: It took me seven years just to finish the first solid draft of the Trilogy, then another seven years to edit, sell and re-edit it into it's current shape.

EM: Wow! I'm sure you've seen your writing change a lot in that time.

Patrick: Well, I've always been good at putting words together. I don't know how much better I've gotten at that. But I've certainly gotten better at plotting and structuring a novel. Storytelling stuff.

EM: I like what you said about that on BookLoons:

There's so much more to a good novel than exciting characters, clever language, and a unique world. Interweaving different plot arcs and character motivations is very tricky, and it's easy to confuse or disappoint the reader. Those are the pieces of the craft that it took me years to learn.

What things have you done in particular to expand your horizons in these areas, or has it mostly been a matter of practice, practice, practice?

Patrick: A lot of what I've done is simply to think more in terms of plot than I used to. And yes, practice certainly helps too. But it's not just practice....

Do you know how to fix a tire?

EM: I wasn't aware they could reproduce... Oh! You mean like patch it? Well, that depends on the tire. I'm pretty decent with a bicycle tire, but I take my car tires to the shop. Now, I could probably replace a car tire if I really had to, but I don't know much about fixing one. Why do you ask?

Patrick: Can you change a tire, I mean.

EM: Oh. Yeah, sure. If I had a jack. And a lug wrench. And a spare tire. And if I hadn't been riding around on the rims long enough to trash them. Not my favorite way to spend an hour, but I could do it.

Patrick: Okay. How did you learn how to change a tire?

EM: My dad taught me when I bought my first car.

Patrick: Makes sense. You wouldn't need to know before that, right? Now, would you say that you're good at changing a tire? Are you an accomplished tire-changer?

EM: I don't suppose so.

Patrick: That's what I'm talking about. There are certain aspects of the craft of novel writing that you don't even become aware of until you're working on it. Plotting is one of those. Just like changing a tire, you don't really need to worry about being able to do it until you have a car of your own.

But changing the tire in your driveway some afternoon only gives you a rough idea of what you need to do. It's entirely different when you blow a tire on the highway. When that happens you look at the smoking, shredded mass of rubber and you realize that if you don't fix this, it isn't getting done. Maybe you did ride on the rim for a while and it's trashed. Maybe the lug nuts are rusted tight. On the shoulder of the road with the cars blowing past you, that's when you really learn the craft of changing the tire.

The same thing is true with writing. It isn't until things go wrong and you have to fix them that you really start learning the tricks of the trade. Sure people can help you, give advice. But what you take away from being helped isn't the same. If you call a tow truck you end up with a new tire, you haven't developed your skills in the same way. Ditto for writing.

EM: The world you've created for the Kingkiller Chronicle is truly magnificent. I'm overwhelmed by the tremendous amount of thought you must have put into the University, the Edema Ruh, the city of Tarbean, the artistic circles of Imre, the systems of magic—sympathy, sygaldry... You've clearly based your work on a wide variety of studies, far beyond anything taught in a traditional English department.

If you were the head of a creative writing department, and the Dean of the College asked you to draw up the course requirements for a brand new interdisciplinary major called "Fantasy World Building," what core requirements and/or electives would you include, and why?

Patrick: I can tell you what the first requirement would be: three credits of Basic Critical Thinking. This is usually taught as a philosophy class at most universities, but in my opinion it should be required for every college student.

For the overall class requirements, I'd like it to be open-ended. Students would be allowed to choose from a large pool of classes ranging from anthropology, sociology, religious studies, various hard sciences, histories, as well as the "fine" arts. (What are the other arts, crude arts? Rough arts?)

The thing is, not every well-created world needs to focus on the same things. For example, you notice how money is never an issue in Tolkien's books? Nobody ever pays for anything. That's not a flaw in his worldbuilding, it's a choice.

On the other hand, in McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern books, the economy is a big piece of the world. It's important to the story. But there's no religion in Pern? For a world where religion is one of the key elements, you want to go to Katherine Kurtz's Deryni books.

Here is the key: you need to build a world that's appropriate for the story you're trying to tell. Or, conversely, you need to realize that the world you build will shape your story. It's a bit of the old mirror-and-the-lamp issue.

What else.... At least 9 credits of classes with a non-western emphasis. Too much fantasy falls into the generic faux-medieval time period.

EM: Besides your own work, what other books and/or authors would you recommend people read as examples of truly magnificent worldbuilding, and what is it about each that "makes the cut"?

Patrick: It's not really an issue of Good and Bad worldbuilding. A lot of it comes down to a matter of taste. You want gritty futuristic realism? Then you should go to Neuromancer or Psion. Dystopian future: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Dystopian future with fantasy and action: Never Deal With a Dragon. Gritty, mythic Dark Ages fantasy: In the Eye of Heaven.

In terms of authors. It's hard to go wrong with Orson Scott Card for worldbuilding. He's written a lot of great stories set in a lot of great worlds, all of them different.

You know how some Hollywood stars always play a version of themselves? Like Nicholson, or Walken, or Schwarzenegger? I think some authors are like that. Their stories always bear the undeniable stamp of THEM. This isn't always a bad thing, especially if you like their style. Personally, I like Walken.

But then there are actors who are so good at acting that you never really notice them. The REAL actors. Like Edward Norton and Johnny Depp. When you watch them, they're not playing the character, they are the character.

That's kind of how I think of Orson Scott Card. I just looked up a list of his books and found myself thinking, "Oh yeah, Treason. I love that book. Songmaster. I forgot he wrote that one too. Lovelock. Hart's Hope. Homecoming." All different, all brilliant, all his.

EM: Oh, Homecoming is one of my favorites—

Uh oh. My producer's telling me we're just about out of time. We're going to have to wrap this up for the moment, but tune in next week folks, for the conclusion of our interview with Patrick Rothfuss!

Three... two... one... and.... we're clear. Great show, people!

EM: Thanks, Pat. That was terrific! See you next week?

Patrick: I'll be here with bells on. Figuratively.

(Part II of the interview is available here.)

EM: Hey, everybody! I'm here this week at The Cobblestone Cafe with security dog, Jake Sky. Say "hi" to the audience, Jake!

Jake: Hi.

EM: So, Jake, tell us. What's it like being a security dog?

Jake: I'm hungry.

EM: Ha ha ha. Okay, seriously though. Being a security dog must have its dangerous moments. What the greatest danger you've ever faced?

Jake: Starving to death.

EM: Come on now, Jake. You've lived with me for over fourteen years. You're hardly starving to death.

Jake: Feels like it.

EM: Jake...

Jake: No, really. You want to know what I feel like? I'm hungry all the time. Every minute, every day. Hungry. That's it. My entire existence summed up in a single word.

EM: I fed you twice today.

Jake: Hungry.

EM: Maybe even three times. I think I gave you two dinners by mistake.

Jake: Still hungry.

EM: But the vet says you're in perfect condition!

Jake: What does she know? Is she a dog? Does she know what it feels like to be ravenously hungry all day long? I don't think so.

EM: But surely you haven't been hungry every minute of your life?

Jake: Well, okay. There was that one time. You remember. When I got into the garbage while you were out? Oh man that was a good day. Old Chinese food, half a loaf of stale bread, chicken scraps... Heck, I was full!

EM: Well, there you go.

Jake: Humph. One day in my whole life, and you think that's a good thing?

EM: Oh please. You're fine.

Jake: No way. I'm telling you. Starving.

EM: Hmm... I'm afraid I'm going to have to prove you wrong there, Jake. Hey, Larry, can we roll that clip now?

Larry: Sure thing, EM.